00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,800
Zahiyya: Welcome to the Designers Plants and Coffee podcast where we're sewing, sipping and staying rooted.

00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:10,040
We're three creative women building handmade businesses and sharing real conversations about

00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:14,240
design, growth and what it really takes to make things that matter.

00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,080
So grab your coffee, pull up a project and let's grow together.

00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:27,520
Naima: Today we are talking about a hot topic and that topic is why do we, as black owned, women owned,

00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,300
minority owned brands, undervalue our product? Undervalue you?

00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:34,620
How we represent in the community.

00:00:35,180 --> 00:00:40,900
Why are we always willing to say, oh, I'll adjust my price to meet them instead of having them

00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:42,460
come up to meet our price?

00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:46,620
As you know, all of our topics come from conversations that we have.

00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:51,100
So I think I want to start with and either one of you can jump in.

00:00:51,340 --> 00:00:54,380
What do you think the stigma is around us?

00:00:54,380 --> 00:01:02,740
I mean, we pretty much know around us not feeling like we have the right or feeling comfortable

00:01:02,740 --> 00:01:06,440
asking for what we know we're worth looking back on.

00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,880
LaTisha: Some things, it depends on where I am in the process of my brand or project and how many other

00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:19,080
projects that once I send out, let's say a projected proposal of this is what it's going to cause.

00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,400
Also getting them to come back and say, oh, okay, well, is it flexible? Well, it depends.

00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,080
Eliminate this, this and this.

00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:33,180
Doing all of those eliminations really makes you to kind of question, am I too high?

00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:38,100
And then sometimes you may say, okay, well I can, I can go and do this.

00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:43,980
But now I'm learning after being in this for a while that that's not, that's not the ideal thing

00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:47,180
because I have years of experience. It costs for that.

00:01:47,180 --> 00:01:48,700
My prices are my prices.

00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:55,100
Zahiyya: You have to explain the value that you bring and not necessarily like the what you're doing,

00:01:55,260 --> 00:02:00,860
but the value that it brings to like your client or the company or whoever you're pricing for.

00:02:01,180 --> 00:02:04,540
Now, if it's like a physical product, I've seen this all over the place.

00:02:04,540 --> 00:02:08,700
I mean, how can you, you know, show people the value of it?

00:02:08,700 --> 00:02:14,420
And you have to, I say one way to do that is basically showing your process because they realize

00:02:14,420 --> 00:02:19,620
how long it takes you to make whatever you're making or you know, how the thought process and

00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:24,660
the, you know, was it sketching then the pattern making and then making the garment or whatever

00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:29,100
that is, you know, whatever that handmade item is, you have to show the process so people understand

00:02:29,580 --> 00:02:35,400
how long and honestly it's probably going to be less know it's going to be cheaper than what it should be.

00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:43,400
Naima: And I think for me as a product based company, but also as an educator, as a product based company,

00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,880
it is really hard to value yourself, you know, you know what you put into it.

00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,360
But you do get that sense of, oh my gosh, are people going to pay for this?

00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,840
And I'm learning, yes, people are going to pay for it.

00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,560
You know, you just have to find your people.

00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,480
And that's where the hard part comes.

00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:08,770
And then on the flip side, I love teaching because it gets people to see how much goes into making something.

00:03:09,010 --> 00:03:14,410
So on the first day of class, I always have students, oh, I want to do alterations and blah, blah, blah.

00:03:14,410 --> 00:03:18,289
And I said, and I always laugh and I say, okay, we'll see how you feel at the end of class.

00:03:18,370 --> 00:03:23,970
And one such example had had a student, she said, well, I'm not going to be there for the last class.

00:03:24,130 --> 00:03:26,930
I said, so how do you feel about, how do you feel about alterations?

00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:29,250
And she said, well, I'll only be doing my own.

00:03:30,620 --> 00:03:32,540
And this is not even true alterations.

00:03:32,620 --> 00:03:35,020
This is making a garment from scratch.

00:03:35,020 --> 00:03:41,500
So I said, can you imagine having to take something apart and reconstruct it and only charging $25?

00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:47,300
So when somebody says, well, the cleaners is going to charge me xyz, I always tell them, I'm

00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:50,140
going to charge you more than the cleaners is going to charge you.

00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:52,620
So you don't want to, you don't want me to do it.

00:03:52,620 --> 00:03:58,500
I applaud this younger generation because they're not afraid, these content creators and, you

00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:04,950
know, these, these younger designers are not afraid to say, you're going to run me $1,000 for

00:04:04,950 --> 00:04:06,310
that or I'm not going to make it.

00:04:06,310 --> 00:04:12,470
Whereas I think we're in that middle generation where we were taught that you have to get your

00:04:12,470 --> 00:04:14,910
money and you have to save and you have to do this.

00:04:14,990 --> 00:04:21,230
So I think we always felt like we have to take what they give us and we don't have to do that anymore.

00:04:21,390 --> 00:04:28,430
So what kind of advice would you, would you say, or what kind of tips or how do we get out of that? Am I good enough?

00:04:28,890 --> 00:04:34,970
LaTisha: For me, it was doing the research, market research, and seeing what other companies have the

00:04:34,970 --> 00:04:37,610
same skill or services that I'm offering.

00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:44,090
Then also look at the number of years that I've been doing this and the wide variety of products,

00:04:44,170 --> 00:04:51,610
the labels, the brands that I've worked with and saying this, this is why I'm charging this much.

00:04:51,850 --> 00:04:58,410
Because all of my knowledge, all of my experience with various brands, all of that, the market

00:04:58,570 --> 00:05:02,900
right now is this, all of that comes with this price.

00:05:03,060 --> 00:05:04,980
Zahiyya: And I'll just piggyback what Tish said.

00:05:04,980 --> 00:05:06,940
I mean, that's exactly what you have to do.

00:05:06,940 --> 00:05:12,300
You have to do your market research because if you undervalue what you're doing, they're going

00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:14,180
to say, well, why is this person so cheap?

00:05:14,180 --> 00:05:18,980
You know, they, they're not as good as this other person because they're charging this.

00:05:18,980 --> 00:05:22,660
They, I might not, I'm not, I must not be getting the same product.

00:05:22,660 --> 00:05:25,980
Or like if this is, I'm talking about consulting specifically.

00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:31,060
Like, I mean, if you, and you, you won't get, you know, so people, they shop around and they,

00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:38,680
the value is most people that are in the industry and hire people know what they want and what

00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,880
the value is that you bring to it.

00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,720
They are trying to undercut you. Yes.

00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,480
Because nobody wants to pay what, you know, nobody wants to pay anything.

00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,360
But at the same time, you don't want to undervalue yourself because you're selling yourself

00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:55,880
short because they think that they associate your expertise and your, your excellence or how

00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,400
good you're going to do the project to the money that you charge.

00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,430
Now, I'm not saying go and charge, you know, something crazy, but at the same time, you want

00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:08,390
to be in the ballpark of what, you know, the market, the market rate is and sometimes maybe

00:06:08,390 --> 00:06:13,630
a little higher so you can leave room for negotiation, you know, so say, well, you know, because

00:06:14,110 --> 00:06:19,510
I'm doing this and I like to said before you can take something off, you know, or say I can

00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:24,430
do it or if they want something quicker, you can add expedited fee, you know, so it's, it's

00:06:24,430 --> 00:06:30,990
different ways to, to go about how to price it and the value of it because it's basically value pricing.

00:06:30,990 --> 00:06:33,780
You know, it's not necessarily hourly pricing is value pric.

00:06:34,330 --> 00:06:38,970
Naima: Right, Right. And I'm going to touch on the one thing you said that kind of stuck out and that

00:06:38,970 --> 00:06:46,010
was start high and leave yourself room to negotiate because they're going to come back with a number. But you know what? Your.

00:06:46,410 --> 00:06:48,330
It's just like negotiating for us.

00:06:48,330 --> 00:06:50,810
Think of it as negotiating for a salary. Right.

00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:53,650
We go to a job interview, they offer us a job.

00:06:53,650 --> 00:06:56,970
We know how much we want and they know how much they want to pay.

00:06:57,130 --> 00:06:58,890
And we have to meet in the middle.

00:06:58,970 --> 00:07:05,850
So we have to be willing and strong enough in our beliefs and strong enough in the fact that

00:07:05,850 --> 00:07:09,050
we know what we're doing to walk away. 15,000.

00:07:09,370 --> 00:07:10,890
But I know I want 10.

00:07:11,050 --> 00:07:13,130
And you come back with me and say eight.

00:07:13,130 --> 00:07:14,970
I'm going to say, thanks, but no thanks.

00:07:14,970 --> 00:07:21,770
Because I know I want that 10 and I've started to come down to 10 and still get exactly what I want.

00:07:22,010 --> 00:07:28,650
So it's a fine line, but get those negotiating skills because, and you know, just be prepared to walk away.

00:07:28,810 --> 00:07:34,410
And I think that's the hardest thing for us is it sometimes feels like failure when you have to walk away.

00:07:34,730 --> 00:07:40,880
But your next, your next appointment might be the one that's going to pay you the 15,000 when

00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,200
you would have settled for eight.

00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:52,840
LaTisha: So recently attended this a LinkedIn live and they were discussing how many people actually negotiate their salaries.

00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:59,240
The statistics was that only 40% of people negotiate their salary.

00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:06,950
Everyone else just takes what the people say and that the majority of them literally left money

00:08:06,950 --> 00:08:09,430
on the table because they didn't negotiate.

00:08:09,430 --> 00:08:16,590
They just accepted it when HR and the hiring managers were actually able and willing to go a lot higher.

00:08:16,750 --> 00:08:18,830
So same thing, same rule applies.

00:08:19,070 --> 00:08:24,990
Zahiyya: It takes a little bit of experience because I can remember when I did not do that, you know,

00:08:26,270 --> 00:08:31,030
and then you remember when you did and you, you got more of what you, I mean it came closer

00:08:31,030 --> 00:08:32,590
to what you actually wanted.

00:08:32,750 --> 00:08:38,740
So I mean, it does take a bit confidence and it takes, you know, confidence in your skill and

00:08:38,740 --> 00:08:41,300
your ability to do whatever the job is.

00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:47,820
Naima: Just gonna say, you know, as we are wrapping up this conversation and we touched on a lot of

00:08:47,820 --> 00:08:53,700
things and we've given some pretty good advice, is there anything else we want to share about

00:08:53,940 --> 00:08:58,500
just kind of stepping out on faith and having that nerve and that.

00:08:58,820 --> 00:09:05,460
What was your words, I hear chutzpah to get out there and, and, and sell yourself.

00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:09,960
You are your own representative, so you have to work on it.

00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,480
It's, it's not something that's going to happen overnight.

00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:13,840
You just got to work on it.

00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,680
So any other thoughts, questions, comments?

00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,520
Zahiyya: Legally, leave it in the comments.

00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,880
Any way that you have negotiated something or like a for project or a job that will benefit

00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,400
somebody else, please leave in the comments.

00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,240
Because I mean everybody, I'm like, I'm always learning.

00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,650
I wouldn't say I'm the best negotiator, but I've gotten better than I was, you know, so it's

00:09:33,650 --> 00:09:38,730
just like I know that sometimes you don't always get what you want, but you, you have to get

00:09:38,730 --> 00:09:43,570
closer to the number, you know, so it's just like Naima said, you don't settle for 8.

00:09:43,570 --> 00:09:47,770
You say you want 10, so you ask for 15 and you might get 12. Doesn't hurt to ask.

00:09:47,770 --> 00:09:53,850
And I mean honestly, a lot of like employers or project managers or Whoever is hiring kind of

00:09:53,850 --> 00:09:56,970
expect it, you know, it's not like it's, you know, why is that?

00:09:56,970 --> 00:09:57,850
Why are they going back?

00:09:57,850 --> 00:09:59,090
They're going to pay what they're going to pay.

00:09:59,090 --> 00:10:01,370
They're not going to pay more than what they want.

00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:05,590
So I mean, you just have to ask for what you want and then negot appreciate what you can accept.

00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:12,070
Naima: You know, I'll go back and reiterate what you both said earlier. Do your research. Research the industry.

00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:17,190
Research your, your, I don't even like the word competitors.

00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:21,110
Research your peers and see what they're charging, you know.

00:10:21,510 --> 00:10:28,270
Zahiyya: Yeah, they actually have a feature on Chat GPT which has like AI agent that does the research for you.

00:10:28,270 --> 00:10:32,030
So you just have to put in the right prompt, you know, and say I need to, you know, find out

00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:36,970
the pricing for, you know, say what the project is and you know, how long it' to take you or

00:10:36,970 --> 00:10:39,810
whatever for so and so company and see what they come back with.

00:10:39,810 --> 00:10:41,650
I wouldn't say just rely on that.

00:10:41,650 --> 00:10:48,770
I would double check, you know, and double check what they're saying because, you know, sometimes

00:10:48,770 --> 00:10:51,290
it's like, you know, it's a false negative, whatever, so.

00:10:51,290 --> 00:10:54,650
But it's a starting point anyway. It's a starting point.

00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:57,490
Naima: It could help you answer those questions.

00:10:57,490 --> 00:11:01,730
Like if you're not sure where to start, it can help guide you into where to start.

00:11:01,890 --> 00:11:07,050
Please don't copy and paste directly from AI. You know, take.

00:11:07,050 --> 00:11:10,490
Take the advice they give you and make it your own. All right.

00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:15,450
That was such a good chat. A good topic. Leave us some comments.

00:11:15,690 --> 00:11:20,090
Let us know your best negotiating skills. Ask us any questions.

00:11:20,090 --> 00:11:21,930
We'll try our best to answer them.

00:11:22,410 --> 00:11:28,930
So for tonight, I am Naima of Fearless Threads, along with LaTisha of Keeping.

00:11:28,930 --> 00:11:30,190
Zahiyya: Stitches and Zahiyya from Cover Me Chic. See ya next time.

00:11:32,810 --> 00:11:34,610
Zahiyya: Thanks for hanging out with us on the Designers Plants and Coffee podcast.

00:11:36,090 --> 00:11:41,970
If you love this episode, please leave a review, share it with your creative friend or tag us on Instagram.

00:11:42,050 --> 00:11:45,490
Until next time, keep dreaming big and growing slow.